Was the Exodus a Myth?


Colossus of Amenhotep IV

Almost every year around the time of the Jewish Passover, debates about the validity of the Biblical account of the Exodus frequently come up.

A number of scholars and Jewish rabbis claim that the biblical account of the Exodus is legendary, contrived, or if true at all, embellished, because there is no evidence to support the idea that people worshipping Yahweh were ever enslaved in Egypt or left it en masse as depicted in the Bible.

These arguments seek to undermine the truth of the Bible and the typology the Passover embodies – the substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ.

If the narrative of the Exodus is not factual, then the trustworthiness of Biblical revelation is doubtful.

First, Jesus Himself affirmed the Biblical account of the Exodus as true and appealed to it as basis of His teachings:

Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died. But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven” (Jn. 6:49-51).

Since Jesus staked His credibility, authority and confidence on the reliability of the Exodus, that the Israelites did actually eat manna in the desert as recorded in Scripture, then it was no contrivance or lie, otherwise, these critics are saying Jesus was being a party to deception by affirming fiction as fact.

Anti-Bible Bias

One problem that should be acknowledged is the strong anti-Bible bias prevalent in secular academia which largely reflects in the experts often quoted by the media.

When these people make sweeping, dogmatic and disparaging conclusions about the Bible, Christians need to be circumspect before hanging on to their words.

For instance, these Bible critics allege that the Exodus vaguely relates to Egyptian history because none of the Pharaohs were mentioned by name, but according to Egyptologist Kenneth Kitchen, this was how the title was first used in the 15th century BC:

“The biblical and Egyptian uses of ‘pharaoh’ correspond closely. Thus in the Pentateuch ‘Pharaoh’ is used without a proper name precisely as in Egypt … From the 10th cent. B.C. onward ‘Pharaoh’ plus a proper name became common usage; cf. Pharaoh Hophra [Jer. 44:30] and Pharaoh Neco [2 Kgs. 23:29-35]” (Pharaoh 1986, p. 821 in The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, p. 3)

There are two groups of archaeologists and scholars with different views about the Bible:

(1) The minimalists or Bible deconstructionists – they generally view the Bible as a book of myths and thus unreliable.

Thus, they try to refute any evidence that supports the Biblical account. Professor and archaeologist Anson Rainey says of them:

“Their view that nothing in Biblical tradition is earlier than the Persian period [538-332 BC], especially their denial of the existence of a United Monarchy [under Saul, David and Solomon], is a figment of their vain imagination … Biblical scholarship and instruction should completely ignore the ‘deconstructionist school.’ They have nothing to teach us” (Biblical Archaeology Review, Nov-Dec., 1994, 47).

(2) The maximalists – those who believe the Biblical account has solid historical and archaeological backing. They may be a minority among archaeologists, but with the discoveries found each year supporting Biblical narrative, their numbers are growing.

Wrong dating

Those who believe that there was an actual Exodus fall into two camps: those that believe that it happened in the 13th century BC, and those that believe that it happened in the 15th century BC. Minimalists usually fall into the first camp.

An emerging pool of scholars have adduced several reasons for a revision of traditional Egyptian timeline because the whole chronological framework upon which current interpretation of Egyptian history rests is in error by several centuries.

The Biblical account of the Exodus contains several tiny details that place it within a distinct historical and chronological context. For example:

a) In the events leading up to the Exodus, the book of Genesis records that Joseph’s brothers sold him for 20 shekels to slave traders who took him from Canaan to Egypt (Gen. 37:28).

As an Egyptologist noted, the price of 20 shekels is the price of a slave in the Near East in about 18th century BC.

If these accounts were invented during the Exile (6th century BC) or the Persian period by some fiction writer(s), then the price for Joseph would have been 90-100 shekels because that is the cost of a slave at that time the story is alleged to have been written (Kenneth Kitchen, Patriarchal Age: Myth or History? BAR 21:02, Mar-Apr. 1995, 52).

b) In 1 Kings 6:1, the Bible mentions that the fourth year of Solomon’s reign was “the four hundred and eightieth year after the children of Israel had come out of the land of Egypt.”

Scholars agree on the dates of Solomon’s reign and his fourth year would be in the 960s BC. Subtracting 480 years will place the date for the Exodus in the 1440s BC.

c) In Judges 11:26, Jephthah tells the Ammonites that Israel had been in the land for 300 years. Scholars agree that Jephthah’s victory over the Ammonites took place circa 1100 BC.

This implies that the arrival of the Israelites in Canaan occurred near 1400 BC. Thus there’s Biblical evidence for the time the Exodus occurred.

d) In Chronicles 6:33-37, the genealogy of Heman results in 19 generations from the time of Moses to Solomon. If we take 25 years for a generation, we will get 19 x 25 = 475 years which also places the exodus in the 1440s BC.

Archaeologist Bryant Wood argues that the archaeological data for the Exodus fall into place if the event is dated back to 1450 BC, the approximate date the Bible indicates for the Exodus. He also highlighted that the documented evidence of foreign slaves at the time in Egypt must have included the Israelites.

The archaeological indications of the destruction of Canaanite cities (Ai, Hazor and Jericho) some 40 years afterward support the account of Joshua’s conquests.

But minimalist scholars believe the Exodus took place around 1260 BC – a date that contradicts the Biblically-derived dates and history by almost two centuries.

Were Jews ever Slaves in Egypt?

In the traditional chronology adhered to by minimalists, the Egyptian oppression of Hebrew slaves would have occurred in the 13th century, but there is little to no historical evidence of Hebrew slaves in Egypt at this time.

However, when placed in the 15th century (the 12th dynasty) under a revised chronology, there is substantial evidence for Israelite slave labourers in Egypt.

Dr. Rosalie David, the head of the Egyptian department of the Manchester Museum writes about Semitic slavery in Kahun during the second half of the 12th dynasty:

“It is apparent that the Asiatics were present in some numbers, and this may have reflected the situation elsewhere in Egypt. It can be stated that these people were loosely classed by Egyptians as ‘Asiatics,’ although their exact homeland in Syria or Palestine cannot be determined … The reason for their presence in Egypt remains unclear” (The Pyramid Builders of Ancient Egypt: A Modern Investigation of Pharaoh’s Workforce, Guild Pub., 1986, 191).

From the Bible, however, we know why the Israelites slaves resided in Egypt (see Exodus 1:8-14). Dr. David also points out that though there is no clear answers “there is nevertheless firm literary evidence that Asiatic slaves, women and children were at Gurob” (ibid, 192).

Boxes have also been discovered beneath the floors of houses excavated in Kahun. Sir Flinders Petrie excavated a number of these boxes which contained the skeletons of babies up to 3 months old, sometimes up to three in a box (Ashton John and Down David, Unwrapping the Pharaohs, Master Books, AR, 2006, 100).

These were possibly the baby skeletons of Hebrew babies killed by Pharaoh Amenemhet III’s direct orders in an attempt to limit their population (Ex. 1:16).

A leather scroll dating to the time of Ramesses II (1303-1213) describes a close account of brick-making apparently by enslaved prisoners of the wars in Canaan and Syria very much resembling the biblical account. It describes 40 taskmasters, each with a daily target of 2,000 bricks (cf. Exodus 5:6)

The tomb of vizier Rekhmire (c. 1450 B.C.) shows foreign slaves making bricks for the workshop-store place of the Temple of Amun at Karnak. Semites and Nubians are shown fetching and mixing mud and water, striking out bricks from moulds, leaving them to dry and measuring their amount, under the watchful eyes of Egyptian overseers, each with a rod (cf. Exo. 1:11-14) (Philippe Bohstrom, Were Hebrews Ever Slaves in Ancient Egypt? Yes. April 14, 2016).

The Exodus

The ten plagues is an important feature of the Exodus story. A papyrus in the Leiden Museum in Holland provides a graphic portrayal that closely resembles the biblical account.

There is no consensus among archaeologists as to when it was originally penned. Part of it says:

“… Plague stalks through the land and blood is everywhere … Nay, but the river is blood. Does a man drink from it? As a human he rejects it. He thirsts for water… Nay, but gates, columns and walls are consumed with fire … Nay but the son of the high-born man is no longer to be recognized … The stranger people from outside are come into Egypt… Nay, but corn has perished everywhere … Everyone says ‘there is no more’ (Immanuel Velikovsky, Ages in Chaos, London, 1973, Vol. 1, 25-26).

The ten plagues culminates in the deaths of the Egyptian firstborn, including that of the Pharaoh.

Interestingly, Neferhotep I, who must have ruled during this period, was not succeeded by his son, Wahneferhotep, but instead by his brother Sobkhotpe IV. Historians are not sure why this was so, but the Biblical account tells us why.

The sudden departure of the inhabitants of Kahun is another evidence. Dr. Rosalie David writes:

“It is evident that the completion of the king’s pyramid was not the reason why Kahun’s inhabitants eventually deserted the town, abandoning their tools and other possessions in the shops and houses … The quantity, range, and type of articles of everyday use which were left behind in the houses may suggest that the departure was sudden and unpremeditated” (The Pyramid Builders of Ancient Egypt, Guild Publishing: London, 1986, 195).

This appears to confirm Exodus 12:33 “And the Egyptians urged the people, that they might send them out of the land in haste…

As Pharaoh and the Egyptian army pursued the Israelites, they were drowned as God miraculously parted the Red Sea for His people (Ex. 14:28). It’s no coincidence that the mummy of Neferhotep I has never been found.

Some experts argue that the Exodus never occurred because there are no signs that the Israelites wandered in the desert of Sinai for 40 years. But one fact they omit was that the Israelites lived nomadic lives during their sojourn.

They didn’t live in cities or villages or build house structures or leave behind artifacts that would have survived as evidence.

They were in the wilderness, and they obviously had to re-use every item. The Bible also indicated they lived in tents during those years, which would have left few or no traces that could be found in the desert sand 3,000 years later.

Interestingly, satellite infrared technology has revealed ancient caravan routes in the Sinai.

George Stephen, a satellite-image analyst discovered evidence in the satellite photographs of ancient tracks made by massive number of people going from the Nile Delta straight south along the east bank of the Gulf of Suez and around the tip of the Sinai Peninsula.

He also saw huge campsites along the route which fits the description given in the book of Exodus (Price Randall, The Stones Cry Out, Harvest House OR, 1997, 137).

Limits of Archaeology

Many critics who reject the historicity of the Exodus question how it’s possible that 2 million people would leave Egypt without it reflecting in Egyptian records.

These critics are neglect the fact that ancient history is a patchwork of information where certain answers aren’t clear. Much of it have come down to us in fragments that have to be pieced together to have a complete picture and there is no 100% certainty.

These critics are over-relying on what archaeology can prove. But Archaeology is not infallible; this field of study is fraught with its own limitations. Dr. Edwin Yamauchi, a respected archaeologist point out some of them:

  1. Little of what was made or written in antiquity survives to this day
  2. Few of the ancient sites have been surveyed and a number have not even been found
  3. Probably fewer than 2 per cent of the known sites have been meaningfully excavated
  4. only a fraction of the fraction that have been excavated have been published and their data made available to the scholarly world (The Stones and the Scriptures, Philadelphia, 1972, ch. 4).

Perhaps the most challenging impediment to having a complete archaeological evidence of the Exodus event is destruction of evidence.

The Egyptians were known to have expunged historical records when the truth proved to be embarrassing or obliterate records if it doesn’t suit their political interests.

In fact, this practice has made it difficult for scholars to determine Egyptian chronology because the names of conquered rulers were literally chiseled out of their place in history.

For instance Pharaoh Akhenaton (c. 1350-1334 BC) tried to introduce monotheistic reforms into Egyptian religion and had the names of his rival god, Amon removed from Egyptian monuments throughout Egypt.

After Akhenaton’s death, the scribes entered his father’s tomb and re-carved all of it, and while at it, eliminated all references to Akhenaton from it!

Pharaoh Thutmose III also virtually destroyed all records relating to Queen Hatshepsut (c. 1503-1483 BC), the previous ruler whom he despised from Egyptian history after he ascended the throne.

Thutmose and his son, Amenhotep II, systematically removed her image from monuments, reliefs, statues, and the official list of Egyptian rulers.

A scholar suggests that Hatshepsut is the most likely candidate for the princess who adopted Moses (Ex. 2:10) and the obliteration of her memory was for her adoption of Moses – regarded as a rebel (Hansen David, Moses and Hatshepsut, Bible and Spade, 2003, 16:14-20).

The mass exodus of the Israelites was a national embarrassment to ancient Egypt and her religion (since each of the plagues was a slam against their deities) therefore it’s understandable why records of it wouldn’t be preserved.

And there is no valid reason why the Israelites would invent a tale about a beginning birthed in slavery in an era where most nations invented tales linking them to the highest races or gods.

Biblical accounts however includes the failures, defeat and sins of God’s people. The Exodus account is also reiterated in 1 Samuel 4:8, Psalm 7:8, 95, 106; 1 Cor. 10:1-5, reminding us that this event has much significance both to Israel and the Church.

Bible Characters in the Quran (2)

images (1)

Islamic records make references to many Jews and Christians living in Arabia during Muhammad’s time. He obviously heard some Bible stories from them and even appealed to their Scriptures for legitimacy.

But while the Quran claims to be a confirmation of the Bible and a fuller explanation of it, many of its teachings and stories directly contradict it.

Pharaoh and Moses

The Quranic account of Moses is laden with several historical, chronological and Biblical errors that no rational person should have any qualms dismissing it as a poorly crafted redaction. For example:

So the magicians were thrown down to prostration; they said, ‘We believe in the Lord of Aaron and Moses. (Pharaoh) said: Believe ye in Him before I give you permission? Surely this must be your leader, who has taught you magic! be sure I will cut off your hands and feet on opposite sides, and I will have you crucified on trunks of palm-trees; so shall ye know for certain, which of us can give the more severe and the more lasting punishment” (Sura 20:70-71).

This is hogwash. Muhammad shamelessly abjures millennia of Jewish and Egyptian history by presenting Moses, Aaron and the magicians as Muslims.

Furthermore, crucifixion as a means of execution was unknown in Egypt during this time of history, so the statement alluded to Pharaoh is an impossible one.

Interestingly, maiming and crucifixion were also prescribed by Allah/Muhammad for anyone who insults Islam (Sura 5:33). It seems the cruel spirit that inhabited the Quranic Pharaoh also inspired Muhammad.

The Quran’s author wasn’t also sure whether the ancient Egyptians were polytheists or monotheists.

Sura 7:127 “The chiefs of Firaun’s (Pharaoh) people said ‘will you leave Musa (Moses) and his people to spread mischief in the land and to abandon you and your gods. He said we will kill their sons…

Sura 28:38 “And Pharaoh said ‘Council I know not that you have any god but me. Kindle me Haman, a fire upon the clay, and make me a tower, that I may mount up to Moses’ god for I think that he is one of the liars.

Moses and the Israelites

The episode of the children of Israel’s worship of a golden calf in the Quran is plagued with several problems.

Sura 7:149 says that the children of Israel “repented, and saw that they had erred” and begged the Lord for forgiveness before Moses’ return but Sura 20:91 says the opposite: “They had said, We will not abandon this cult, but we will devote ourselves to it until Moses returns to us.”

In the real Bible account, the Israelites didn’t repent of their idolatry before Moses’ return (Ex. 32:18-26).

Adding to this conundrum, the Quran is not sure whom to blame for this apostasy. In Sura 20:85, Allah says “Verily, we have tried thy people, since thou didst leave them. The Samaritan has misled them into error.”

Allah tried them by leading them into idolatry or he used a Samaritan to pull it off. This is even an anachronism.

Samaria was not existing at the time Moses was leading the children of Israel. It was a city built about 7 centuries later, so there couldn’t have been “a Samaritan” (or a Samari) with them. Where did he even come from? Did he descend from heaven or ascend from below?

When Moses returned and chastised the people for their apostasy, they told him “we were loaded with fardels, even the ornaments of the people [of Egypt] and we cast them, as the Samaritan also threw them, into the fire” (Sura 20:87).

They were blaming God for blessing them with too much gold! A forger hath done this.

In the Bible, only the women and very young male children had jewelry on them (Exodus 32:2). Once again, the “Samaritan myth” is exposed for what it is.

In the Quran, after the calf was made by the ‘Samaritan’, it “had a mooing sound, so they said: This is your god, and the god of Musa” (Sura 20:88). Such Arabian night tales are not in the Bible.

In vv. 92-94, Moses blamed Aaron for the apostasy and even plucked out his beard. But wasn’t it Allah/Samari that did the job?

Verse 97 quotes Moses saying: “Verily we will burn it [the idol] and will scatter its dust over the sea.” Which sea? They were in a wilderness! Allah didn’t know this.

David and Saul

And (further) their Prophet said to them: ‘A sign of his authority is that there shall come to you the Ark of the covenant, with (and assurance) therein of security from your Lord, and the relics left by the family of Moses and the family of Aaron, carried by angels. In this symbol for you if ye indeed have faith” (Sura 2:248).

The name of this prophet is not given in the Quran, but from the Bible, we know he is Samuel. The Israelites were fed up with the corrupt judges ruling them and so asked him to appoint them a king like other nations (1 Sam. 8:1-5).

The Ark had been returned to Israel decades before Saul became king, so it couldn’t have been “the sign of his authority” (1 Sam. 10).

The Hebrew word “sakinat” used for the Ark here is one of the many non-Arabic words smuggled into the Quran.

The Ark contained the stone tablets of the 10 commandments (Ex. 25:16), the golden pot of manna (Ex. 16:32-34) and Aaron’s budding rod (Num. 17:1-11). They weren’t relics from Moses and Aaron’s family. When the Temple was dedicated, only the stone tablets remained (1 Kgs. 8:9).

Muhammad probably heard from the Jews about cherubims on the Ark’s cover but didn’t understand that they were carvings, not literal angels. The Ark was carried by the Levites (Dt. 31:9).

Apparently, Muhammad thought the Ark was in heaven, so he too claimed that his own “scriptures” were also preserved on a tablet in heaven (Q 85:22).

Verse 249 reads:

And when Saul went forth with the hosts he said, ‘God will try you with a river; whosoever drinks of it is not of me, and whoso tastes it flot, he is of me, saving him who scoops up with his hand.’ But they drank of it, except a few of them; and when he crossed it, and those who disbelieved with him, they said, ‘We have no power today against Goliath and his hosts…’

This is a confusion of Gideon’s story with that of Saul. In the Bible, Gideon led Israel against the Midianites and his army was tested at the stream (Judges 7). Whereas Saul’s battle was against the Ammorites about 110 years after Gideon’s time (1 Sam. 11-12).

Saul’s battle was not even against Goliath, because by then, he had been rejected by God. The Quran mixes up details of separate stories at different times and weaves them into one.


The Quran’s account of Solomon reads like a badly scripted Arabian legend:

And there were gathered together unto Solomon his armies of the jinn and humankind, and of the birds, and they were set in battle order. Till they reached the Valley of the Ants, an ant exclaimed: O ants! Enter your dwellings lest Solomon and his armies crush you, unperceiving” (Sura 27:17-18).

One must ask why Muhammad – “the seal of the prophets” – didn’t also marshal such a wonderful army of aves, spirits and men like Sulaimon. This is a fairy tale for children.

Ants do not talk; they are unable to recognize human faces and avoid being crushed. How did Solomon retain his sanity if he heard the voices of all the insects around him chattering day and night? Was that wisdom or lunacy?

Between vv. 22-28, Solomon carries on a long conversation with a Hoopoe bird whom he sent to the Queen of Sheba. The bird tells Solomon:

I found her and her people worshipping the sun instead of Allah, and Satan maketh their works fairseeing unto them and debarreth them from the way (of Truth)…” (v. 24).

There you have it: a Muslim bird with a fully developed human brain!

Sura 34:14 says: “Then, when We decreed (Solomon’s) death nothing showed them his death except a little worm of the earth, which kept (slowly) gnawing away at his staff; so when he fell down, the jinns saw plainly that if they had known the unseen, they would not have tamed in the humiliating Penalty (of their Task).”

How did this work out? Solomon stood there for months (or years), waiting for a little worm to finish him up till he fell apart. How did a little worm eat away at his staff?

In Sura 72, jinns (demons) told Muhammad about Allah, heaven and the earth, but here they were deceived by Allah to keep working for Solomon not knowing he had died. This book is an insult to human intelligence.


An entire sura is named after Mary the mother of Jesus, but much of what the Quran says about her are fictitious.

Sura 3:35 says of Mary’s mother. “(Remember) when the wife of Imran said, My Lord! I have vowed unto Thee that which is in my belly as a consecrated (offering)…”

This is an error. Mary’s mother couldn’t have been the wife of Amran (or Imran) who was Moses’ father!

“The name of Amran’s wife was Jocebed the daughter of Levi, who was born to Levi in Egypt, and to Amran she bore Aaron, and Moses and their sister Miriam” (Num. 26:59).

Ibn Kathir gave Mary’s mother’s name as Anna but this suggests that Muhammad confused the story of Hanna in the OT with that of prophetess Anna in the Temple at the time of Jesus. Whereas they lived over 1,000 years apart.

In Sura 3:36-37, we are told that Zechariah was Mary’s guardian in the Temple and whenever he “went into the sanctuary where she was, he found that she had food.”

When asked she said “It is from Allah.” This is a fabricated story (apparently, Muhammad weaved in Elijah’s story of miraculous food supply).

Mary and Zacharias didn’t live in the same town, so he couldn’t have been her guardian (Lk. 1:26). Also, if Zacharias was a prophet of Allah, he certainly would have known where Maryam’s food was coming from. Sura 19:27, however, gives a nuanced version of this story:

[Allah says to Mary:] So eat and drink and be glad, and if you see any human being, say: ‘Verily I have vowed a fast unto the Most Beneficient (Allah) so I shall not speak to any human being this day.

Allah asks Mary to lie to people that she was fasting when she was actually feasting! Quite telling. There’s also a discrepancy in the number of angels that visited Mary:

And when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah hath chosen thee and made thee pure … (And remember) when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah hath given thee glad tidings of a word from him, whose name is the Messiah…” (Sura 3:42, 45)

“…Then we sent our angel to her and he appeared to her in the form of a well proportioned man… The angel said, ‘I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may give thee glad tidings of a righteous son” (Sura 19:17-19).

After Maryam gave birth to baby Jesus in a secluded place, she returned to her people who exclaimed:

O Mary! Thou hast come with an amazing thing. O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man or was thy mother a harlot” (Sura 19:27-28).

This statement is an unfortunate anachronism. Mary couldn’t have been Aaron’s sister since they didn’t live in the same century.

Muhammad confused Miriam the sister of Aaron with Maryam the mother of Jesus (the name is the same in Arabic) not realizing they were different women who lived 1,500 years apart.

By claiming that Mary was a daughter of Imran and a sister of Aaron, the Quran is implying that Moses was Jesus’ cousin! This historical compression exposes the Quran as a binded book of lies.

If this book can be so flat-out wrong about Bible characters, then its claims about Jesus cannot be reliable either. This is why Muslim leaders try to scare their followers away from reading the Bible by themselves. But a truth-seeking Muslim must reject lies and cleave to truth. The Bible is the truth.

Trapped in Islamic Wonderland

A certain Muslim responded to my post Islam in Wonderland on Facebook and we had a back and forth exchange there. Unfortunately, he blocked me before I could reply to his last message.

Abdulmalik: I have read your thoughts about Islam in wonderland. I must say their is no myth and fairly tales in the koran, neither is there is any contradiction. What you refuse to to acknowledge is the deep meaning of what each of the verse represent.

Surah 6:14 “Say: shall i take as a guardian any other than Allah, the creator of the heavens and the earth and it is He who feed but is not fed. Say: verily, i am commanded to be the first of those who submit. And be not you of the idolators.” What it means is that, at that very moment in time he was the first to believe in the revelation and submit to Allah. Same thing apply to Q6vs163. It does not mean that he was the first mankind to submit to Allah…

Q7v: 143: “And when Moses came at our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said: My Lord!! show me (thyself), so that i may look upon thee. He said: you cannot (bear to) see Me but look at the mountain, if it remain firm in its place, then will you see Me; but when his Lord manifested His glory to the mountain He made it crumble and Moses fell down in a swoon; then when he recovered, he said: Glory be to thee, i turn to thee, and i am the first of the believers.”

In this verse which you refuse to quote is what transpire between Moses (may peace be upon him) and God when he went to receive the criterion. He ask to see the Lord, but was told will not be able to see the Lord in this world, when God manifested his glory the mountain crumble, and Moses exclaimed that he was the first to believe.

Islam means that one submit ones self to the creator, with associating partners in any form to Allah. A muslim is then is someone who submit his/herself to Allah, with associating partner to Him. All those who you mention that claim to believe in one God, then compare their doctrine of one God to the following simple quote from quran. “Say: He, God is one. God is He on Whom all depend. He begets not, nor is He begotten. And none is like unto him” Q112 vs 1-4.

Then compare The believes of Abraham, Noah, Jacob, David, Solomon, Moses, Jesus (peace and blessing of God be upon them to those verse if it contradicts, and surely you will find no contradiction with these pious servants of God.

What then Mohammad (peace he upon him) did about qibla, when to fast, how to pray etc is to standardise the practices of Muslims and perfect the religion of God. What you succeeded in doing is to lie and deceive, that is why you do not quote fully from your source. I hope you upload my response on [your] blog.

Victor: I got your messages reading my mind (that I spend my time devising ways on how to “lie and deceive people”, that’s why I don’t quote fully from my sources. Thanks!) You must be the “champion scholar” bold enough to burst all my “lies”. So thanks once again.

My point in Sura 6:14 was that Muhammad admitted he was the first Muslim (“I am the first Moslem“). We have no problems with that. Every historian agrees with it, so I accept it. First means first in my language. Even if you say he was the first to “believe in the revelation and submit to Allah” I may not argue with you.

The Islamic worldview says everybody was busy worshipping idols, but one day an “angel” squeezed an Arab man in a cave, then suddenly he started continuing the religion of Abraham – a man who had died over 1,500 years before him, and that was a man who never even lived in Mecca! Such funny myths.

The problem started when Muhammad began to contradict himself by claiming Moses also said he is the “first of the believers/Muslim.” So which is it? Was Muhammad the first Muslim or not? How can there be two firsts? That was my point in the post, yet you toe-danced it away.

If you are familiar with your book, you would have known that some Egyptians became Muslims too (Sura 26:51), so which is it? Is Moses still “the first to believe?”

You said Islam means to submit oneself to the creator, and that all those people in the Bible believed in one God. I already refuted this lame definition.

Every religionist submits to a god. Sikhs submit to one God, are they Muslims? Jews submit to one God, are they Muslims? Satanists submit to one god, are they Muslims too?

That one believes in one God doesn’t make one a Muslim. It’s a shame you ignored this fact in my post. You are a poor advocate if you keep repeating a point that has already been refuted. Besides, you have not yet proven to me that the god of Islam is the Creator. That is blind belief. Prove this then we can discuss further.

You spoke about the “beliefs of Abraham, Noah, Jacob, David, Solomon, Moses and Jesus.” Where did you get their beliefs from? Where are their Islamic books? All their words in the Quran are plain forgeries from Muhammad’s lips. Islam didn’t exist before Muhammad. Anybody who says otherwise is swimming in a myth.

Only Muslims believe their religion predates Muhammad. Please wake up from this delusion. If you want the real facts about these men, consult the Bible. They are not in Islam. I could care less about a jumbled mass of confused post-Christian Arabic writings from a warlord.

You speak so much about logic, yet on this point, you abandon logic and cling to the redaction of a 7th century Arabian liar.

I have already defined what a Muslim is in the article: one who adheres to the five pillars of Islam. None of the people before Muhammad knew of, let alone followed the five pillars, so if you tell me that they are Muslims, you are just rehashing your myths (tales) and if you persist in that, I will simply ignore your points. Why should I embrace Islamic myths and not Greek or Aztec myths?

You said Muhammad came to “standardize and perfect” the religion of God. What a joke. That means for more than 4,000 years, this “religion of God” had no standard and had no one to perfect it. So the hands of Allah were tied until the 7th century when Messiah-Muhammad came along. If this fantasy suits you, that’s cool, but don’t please don’t call it the truth.

Abdulmalik: Muhammad (peace be upon him) was the first to submit to the oneness of God when the revelation was revealed to him. He was the first at that time to believe in it, that is why he was able to call others to it.

Likewise Moses, for he was the first to believe at that moment, before he travel to Egypt to warn Pharoah and his people… They did not claim to be the first mankind to submit…Yes, [Islam] means submission to the creator. That is why I gave a basic description of what oneness of God is Q112vs1-4.

I ask you to compare those who you called to believe in one God if their God is as it was stated in those verses. All those which you mentioned have an image of God, and God said in Q112vs4 that “there is none like Him”. When you said and angel squeezed him into a cave to give him a message. Where did God spoke to Moses? Did he squeeze him to that place?

Where did angel met Mary to give her glad tidings of a pious son? Did he squeeze into that place?…You said Abraham never stayed or live in mecca? You only confirmed that you are just bent on decieving people, who then built the this black stone you refer to?

Victor: I have said I will only continue this exchange if you are forthright in answering my questions. If you ignore my questions after this, I will terminate further correspondence with you because I prioritize my time.

I will allow the issue of the “first Muslim” contradiction to rest, since you can’t address it.

You talked about Muhammad’s submission to one God, yet you refuse to answer a simple question, which God did he submit to? Wasn’t Allah one of the many pagan gods of Mecca?

Where is the proof that the deity Muhammad submitted to is the Creator? Or are you telling me that Allah is equivalent to the chief deity of any pagan culture? If that’s true, then Allah is equivalent to Vishnu, Baal, Jupiter or Osiris. Anyone can submit to just one pagan god and then become a Muslim right?

That is why your argument fails. You are concluding what you are yet to prove. You have accepted through blind belief that Allah MUST be the creator and you are trying to force your assertions on us. Sorry, it won’t work.

Muhammad’s father was Abdul-Allah (servant of Allah), his uncle was ObeidAllah. They were Allah worshippers, yet they weren’t Muslims but pagans! Allah was simply a pagan deity straight out of Arabian paganism. Read this

Since Islam didn’t exist before Muhammad, whatever “image” he had about Allah (whether physical or mental) must have come from somewhere. You can’t tell me that a 40 year old pagan all of a sudden received a “new image revelation” about the same deity worshipped by his fathers. This is why I find your quote from Sura 112:4 “there is none like him” amusing. Your Allah appeared to Muhammad physically (53:1-10), Allah has a face (55:26-27), a hand (48:10), an eye (20:36-39), a shin (68:42), and he even forgets (2:37) etc. So how can you say “there is nothing like him?” Read this for more

It seems you haven’t read the Sirat Rasulullah where it was recorded:

“…Gabriel brought him the command of God. ‘He came to me’ said the Apostle of God, ‘while I was asleep, with a coverlet of brocade whereon was some writing, and said, ‘Read!’ I said what shall I read? He pressed me with it so tightly that I thought it was death, then he let me go and said, ‘Read!’ I said ‘What shall I read?’ He pressed me with it again so that I thought it was death … He pressed me with it the third time…” (Ibn Ishaq, translated by Alfred Guillaume, p. 106)

How many people in the Bible were squeezed and forced by an angel of God? None! Only demons act like that. Yet on the basis of your own ignorance, you question the veracity of the experience of your guru. Keep it up!

As for the issue of hajj, Abraham, Mecca, Adam or Noah, I don’t wish to talk about them again because I sense you are incapable of breaking free from your lalaland. Since all your claims are based on just one fairy tale book – the Quran, you have no historical backing.

I’ve told you you are free to rehash your myths as much as you like, but don’t present them to me since I wont buy them.

Abdul Malik: If you claim islam have spread all those things you mentioned, why do people of different background accept this your so called “lies”, “myth”, “forgeries” etc, its because they see through all media lies that it portray in islam … I have done that critical analysis my friend, about moon-god, warlord, polytheist, pagan, i have read all those, but they always get it wrong like you. Apply the logic then my friend to what you believe.

Victor: You asked why islam has spread among many people of different backgrounds if it’s false, I’ll tell you why:

1. Lies are spiritual. Satan is the “father of lies” and he is the brain behind all false religions. Once he breathes into a lie, it lives on and spreads far. That is why religions founded on myths are still alive and kicking. They serve the devil’s purposes in enslaving mankind and keeping them from the Gospel.

2. Islam is not learnt naturally, it has to be imposed by brainwashing. From young ages, Islam is drilled into people by hammering the same ideas into their heads over and over again, and censoring any criticism of Islam. This is why Islamic nations ban the Bible and Christian materials. A lie that is often repeated often becomes “true” to those who refuse to think out of that precinct.

3. Islam appeals to the fallen human nature. It gives a false outward impression of humility and loyalty, whereas it approves of the worst vices inherent in man. It approves of hate, war, adultery, use of charms, deception, looting, rape and even paedophilia. It also promises a carnal heaven and an afterlife debauchery that would more or less appeal to criminals.

I’m sorry, you are incapable of doing any critical analysis of Islamic beliefs. You are a “submitter.” You may criticize other belief systems, but when it comes to Islam, your reason becomes a limp noodle.

This is called a blind spot – it’s just like a fish that doesn’t know it’s in water. You still don’t know the nature and extent of deception into which you have fallen. Ignorance can be very deadly. I simply pray your “applied logic” helps you find truth in Jesus Christ.