Murder of Apostates: A Dialogue

In January, I had a dialogue with Miriam, a Muslim lady. She contacted me again this past week, intending to continue her mission in “opening my mind to Islam,” but this time around, it backfired when she admitted what I have been saying all the while – that islam is a death cult. This exchange reveals how “moderate” Muslims drop the mask when push comes to shove, showing us the spirit behind Islam.
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Miriam: May I ask why you write a lot against Islam on your blog?

Victor: I began studying about Islam in 2002 and was shocked at what I discovered. I had heard horror stories of mass murders of Christians by Muslims in Northern Nigeria, but dismissed these as criminal acts of “muslim extremists” or “bad eggs” of Islam. But when I read some portions of the Quran and hadiths and how these acts were legitimised, I began to see Islam, Muhammad and the Quran in a totally different light.

Years later, I saw how Muslims were attacking and misrepresenting Christianity and began to respond to some of them. This led me to study Islam more and I finally realised that there is no way Islam could have been from God (or that Allah is God). The image of Muhammad in the hadiths was not that of a prophet of God, but a wicked and unholy man. I realised the [eternal] danger my Muslim friends and loved ones were in if they keep following Islam, so I began to write these articles to inform other Christians and open the eyes of Muslims.

Miriam: In fact, what you found is extremely untrue. Killing is not legitimised. The word “Muslim” means to follow Allah’s orders, and he strictly forbade murder in the Quran in 5:53 [Victor: Wrong verse] “whoso kills a soul, unless it be for murder or corruption in the land, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind…” Then Quran 6:151 says “and do not kill a soul that God has made sacrosant, save lawfully.” In this verse, murder is forbidden but the death penalty imposed by a state for a crime is permitted.

It is forbidden to attempt to impose Islam on other people. The Qur’an says “There is no compulsion in religion. The right way has become distinct from error” (2:256). Note that this verse was revealed in Medina in 622 AD and was never abrogated by any other verse of the Qur’an. Islam’s holy book forbids coercing people into adopting any religion. They have to willingly choose it.

Victor: That sura 5:32 has been addressed here. Only a person who has not read the preceding and proceeding verses would cite it as you did as “proof.” That sura 6:151 gives an exception to the rule, that is, there are murders legitimised and permitted in Islam. The sura 2:256 “no compulsion in religion” was recited by Muhammad when some Jewish women of the Bani Nadir tribe who had vowed to convert their sons to Judaism were being compelled to convert to Islam. Muhammad said they may not convert if they will pay the jizya tax. This verse has been abrogated by later verses as Ibn Kathir stated:

“[T]his verse is abrogated by the verse of fighting [Sura al-fath 16, 9:73, 123] … therefore all people of the world should be called to Islam. If anyone of them refuses to pay the jizya, they should be fought till they are killed” (Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Surah al-Baqarah ayat 253-286).

By the way, how can the “no compulsion” in Islam be true when Islam mandates imprisonment or death for apostates (murtads)?

Miriam: Many islamic scholars, but not all, consider apostasy as a Hudud (or Hadd) crime, that is one of six “crimes against God” a Muslim can commit, which deserves the fixed punishment of death as that is a claim of God. First of all, don’t you see that this would make the one true religion that everyone should follow, like a shop or store which a person can enter when he wants and leave when he wants, and it may encourage others to forsake the truth. This is someone who has known the truth and practiced the religion and done the rituals of worship, so the punishment is not greater than he deserves.

Moreover, such strong rulings as this are only applies to a person whose life is no longer considered to be useful, because he knew the truth and he forsook it. What soul can be more evil than the soul of such a person? He must be killed because he saw the truth then he became blind. The establishment of the limit on the apostate is therefore not to be compelled to enter Islam, but to punish him for disbelief in Allah after that it becomes clear to him the true path. Islam is a whole way to life. It is religion and state, the worship, the leadership, the Koran and the sword, and the spirit which is based on reason and logic, based on evidence and proof, not in his faith. So an apostate should not maintain his life.

Victor:

1. Your support for people being killed for leaving Islam speaks a lot of volumes, and frankly, it is sheer wickedness. It’s a travesty of human freedom for people to be killed for following the dictates of their conscience. God has given us the freedom to choose and that is why He doesn’t compel us to serve or follow Him. A god who can’t guarantee freedom of conscience cannot guarantee salvation of the soul.

If islam is a “religion of truth” as you claim, then why should those who leave it be killed? If a person is convinced that a religion he had adhered to is a deception, he should be free to reject it. Who is this deity you serve who rules over his kingdom with so much tyranny and sadism? It’s just like a king who claims to be the only true king on earth yet decrees the death of anyone who goes to another kingdom. He must be a very insecured king.

If a king has shown his subjects his love and grace, even when they find reasons to leave his kingdom at first, they will be eager to return – by their own volition – because he had shown them some qualities that another king couldn’t. By decreeing the killing apostates, it clearly shows that Allah is a false, insecure god who has many ugly secrets in his house.

If Allah is the true God, he would seek after those who have walked away, the same way a shepherd goes after a lost sheep, or a person searches for a lost coin or like father awaits the return of a prodigal son. This is a quality of the God of the Bible (Lk. 15:3-18). How horrible to serve a god who slaughters backsliders. Allah is no different from Seth or Satan. And why should we forsake our loving God to bow to such a vicious deity?

2. You said an ex-Muslim deserves to be beheaded because he has “known the truth and practiced the rituals of worship.” Can this also translate this way: if a person who has known the truth and practiced the rites Hinduism and then embraces Islam should also be killed. A person who has known the truth of Judaism and then embraces Islam deserves to be slaughtered also because he left a truth. Agreed?

The fact is, as humans, our ideas of “truth” can change. People change their views on different subjects for different reasons, whether based on emotion, conviction or experience, so to license death for leaving Islam should also translate to licensing death for embracing it. It ought to work both ways. If a person is shown sufficient evidence that Islam is a false religion, or that Muhammad was a false prophet, he has every right to dump it. A religion that decrees the killing of apostates is deceitful and its rites are worthless.

Who gets to decides whose life is “useless”? By what criteria do you (or your religious leaders) decide that a fellow created by God is “useless” and should be exterminated like a laboratory rat? This is what your much vaunted “religion of peace” actually boils down to – supporting cruelty and murder.

3. You said Muslims must “punish (an apostate) for his disbelief in Allah.” If Allah is God and he is so offended because one of his slaves no longer believes in him, he should be the one doing the “punishing,” not sitting back like a gangster godfather, relying on his brainwashed followers to do his dirty job for him. If Allah has failed to prove his existence to his slaves, why should they continue to love and serve a figment of a man’s imaginations?

A true God should be able to defend his name and reputation, and a god who replaces reason with compulsion is not worthy of worship. The God of the Bible said: “Come now and let us reason…” (Is. 1:18). But Allah doesn’t reason with anyone; his topmost priority is to have those who leave his religion killed. Then what makes his islam different from Satanism?

I read an article today, that apart from football matches, another “public entertainment” in Saudi Arabia that makes Muslims gather outdoor, enduring the discomfort and harshness of the desert sun is beheading! Both the young and old gather to watch a fellow human being decapitated by an executioner while chanting “Allah Akbar!” And people wonder why Muslims are quick to violence. You have been so exposed to sheer evil and cruelty so much that you have become immune to it. This is psychopathy – when a person lacks human empathy and justifies every act of barbarity. It’s funny how these same people then come on social media to claim “ISIS are not real Muslims.” Yeah sure.

4. You said Islam is “based on reason and logic…evidence and proof.” This propaganda mush has lost its bite with your previous lines. If Islam has a shred of proof or evidence for its beliefs, there wouldn’t be any need for the sword or jihad. If I tell you 2+2= 4 and you say “no,” I can easily prove my stance by placing two sticks on a table and adding two more to it. That settles it. It becomes clear to everyone who is right and who is wrong. I don’t need to bring out a sword and say “you blasphemed my belief by disagreeing, so you must die!” Only loons do that.

Now where is the evidence that Muhammad is God’s prophet or that the Quran is God’s Word? These are fun topics. You prove Allah with Muhammad, prove Muhammad with Allah, prove the Quran with Muhammad and prove Muhammad with Muhammad’s own words. You call that “evidence,” but we call that fideism – faith in faith.

Sura 5:101 says to you Muslims: “Ask not questions about things which if made plain to you may cause you trouble.” What is this, if not blind faith? Reason and logic thrive where there are questions, criticism and scrutiny, but in Islam, you cannot question what you believe; you can’t doubt; you can’t reason and you are not even free to walk away! That’s bondage.

Miriam: You are misunderstanding Islam and searching for the dark sides. But our doctrine is complete and pure and the image is clear to us, but not to you. Maybe its true that you searched and read a lot about Islam but what you’ve learned is extremely untrue. Maybe the books you read were written by islam’s enemies. Just because there are a lot of Muslims not applying islam and they don’t represent their religion.

Try to make your mind wide open, millions and millions are entering Islam every year, do you think that people didn’t think well or didn’t search about Islam before taking such an important decision? You [research] about Islam but your results are 100% false.

Victor: I have seen both the theory and practical of Islam and I understand them. The former are in the Quran and hadiths while the latter are seen in the savage, barbaric and sub-human atrocities Muslims are perpetrating in my own country and other nations of the world. The recent Orlando massacre by the ISIS jihadist is just an example. I don’t have to “see” Islam from your perspective because you are still trapped in the bubble and truth appears flurry from that end. Anyone who justifies the murder of murtads first needs a human heart and a new spirit from God, before he/she can begin to see things from a Godly perspective.

My facts are based on the original sources of Islam. I’ve heard that accusation of being “spoon-feed by enemies of Islam” many times, but when I ask you Muslims to refute the facts being presented, you either run for the hills or change the topic. And I’m putting it out to you to demonstrate my “100% falsehood” and I will publish it on my blog, so that everyone can read you expose my untruths or see who between us is peddling untruths.

It’s a good thing that not all Muslims are applying Islam. Imagine how awful this world would be if every Muslim was beheading people or flogging women for uncovering their hair. You have already shown me the spirit behind islam by your appraisal of death for apostasy. You also said “millions are converting to Islam.” On which planet? By the way, if every religion incorporates death penalty for apostasy, will islam have any figure to boast of? To imply that a religion is true because many are embracing it is a fallacy of appeal to numbers. It’s just like telling me garbage is suitable for human consumption because so many flies are perching on it. That’s ridiculous. You think God is a respecter of numbers? Not at all.

The Bible says “The wicked shall be turned into hell and all the nations that forget God” (Ps. 9:17). It means everyone who practices or justifies wickedness (beheading, stoning of rape victims, jihad etc.) is going to hell and “all the nations that forget God.” There are many nations today wallowing in pits of rebellion against God. They sin boldly and even deny God’s existence. There are also nations that claim to be religious but practice all sorts of evil under the shroud of religion. They rape captured women, destroy church buildings and kill others to appease a god who promised them a brothel paradise. They have rejected the true God as revealed in Jesus Christ. They will all face the axe.

God is not a respecter of human feelings. He is no respecter of men – their race, religions, philosophies or zeal. “He does not play favourites” (Rom. 2:11). If nations will not be spared from hell, what makes you think millions of Muslims will be spared? Because false religions and sin have multiplied, so “hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure” to swallow more people (Is. 5:14).

Your only hope here and in eternity is to trust in Jesus Christ as your Saviour. It doesn’t matter how deep you have gone in Islam or how the fear of leaving it assail you, God will preserve you with His mighty hand. Please think about this because there is no evidence that Islam is of God.

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