One of Islam’s fatal flaws is its tu quoque (“you too” logical fallacy). Islam is such a volatile religion that has no positive evidence for itself, neither can it stand by itself – it has to build itself by attacking Christianity (and other religions). The following exchange with Haruna (on 12/04/2016) brings it out perfectly well.
Haruna: I could understand your pent-up feelings. preconception of islam. The ignorant sidetalks of some disgruntled elements calumnies on islam and the gonzo-media fabrications which has transfused innocent ignorance and hatred on muslims and islam. But you should know errors cannot be truth even in the wilderness of falsehood, that’s why you could see apparently that islam is growing despite the global negative conspiracies. (Pls do your research).
I would not blame Christianity for the sins of pseudo-Christians and pastor-preneur who commodify the gospel of God as the most lucrative as you have wrongly stereotyped islam and muslims. Generalisation are preconception are the errors of your perceptions, in spite of your obvious educational orientation. I assumed education to be the nourishment of intellectual clear-headedness. Learn and seek knowledge.
Victor: My information about Islam ais based on its original sources – Quran, Hadiths and Sira. If you dismiss them as ignorant “calumnies” on Islam, that’s fine. There’s a lot of ignorance about Islam (on both sides) and it’s my intention to demolish them, but until you demonstrate my errors, don’t be in a haste to call Islam the “truth.” There are many errors that appear to be truth – especially when they have been repeated for so long. This is the psychology of brainwashing.
There are no “global negative conspiracies” taking the wind out of the sail of the islamic ship. What is actually happening is that now we live in an age when information cannot be suppressed like the past. Everyone – even in Islamic regions – now has access to detailed information about Islam and its books and can easily draw their own conclusions. (Thank God for the Internet!).
Furthermore, Muslim jihadists are stepping up their acts, thus confirming what many people are already discovering within the pages of Muslim “holy” books – that Islam is a religion of violence. You guys will perhaps need at least another century of disinformation to sell the myth of Islamic “peace” to people again.
Islam is also having a hard time due to the mass exodus of Muslims out of Islam who are now attacking and exposing the cult they were once trapped in. Again, we have to thank the Internet for making their voices to be heard all over the world. The growth of the Muslim population is basically due to migration and high birth rate, rather than mass conversion. I have done my research, here it is for you to digest on – that is, if you want to be “confused with the facts”.
You said: “I would not blame Christianity for the sins of pseudo-christians”
Thanks for your objectivity. But who decides who is a true or false Christian or Muslim? It’s the object of devotion and authority. Since Christianity is based on Jesus Christ and what He taught in the Bible, a person who doesn’t live by them is a false Christian (even if he claims to be a pastor).
In the same vein, since Islam is based on the Quran and Hadiths, a Muslim who doesn’t live by them or emulates Muhammad is a false Muslim. So the issue boils down to what Jesus taught in contrast with what Muhammad taught.
You generalise which category you feel I must belong to and then bring in the preconception that I must be wrong in some way for attacking Islam. This has nothing to do with my educational background. This is not even about knowledge, but understanding. A person can have great knowledge but little understanding.
One doesn’t need to be a professor of religion (or an old man) to see the falsehood of Islam. I started to see the falsehoods of Islam from my teenage years. Even an unschooled boy of 12 who understands the truth can easily demolish the weak pillars of Islam.
Haruna: What is sira, qur’an, hadith? dont push me on defending edge but here are clues to loose your ignorance little bit. The “siiratu nabiyy”, the categories of hadith, various aspect of application, the quran with its various paraphernalia would have bail you out from the bondage of gross folly.
It seems you are in the mire, in that “syllable of errors” Christianity and its many versions of interpolative mutilation (the bibles, old and new versions). I had thought you could have read the quran with bonehead misconception void of hermenuetic context, causes of revelations, historical incidence, scientific proves. I thought you could enlist the various chains of hadiths and the historical incidence of quranic revelation.
Victor: You don’t need to defend your books. Your ignorance about them already speaks much volumes. Remove those original sources and your Islam becomes bid’a – an innovation. In these 3 sources lie the ethics and ethos of Islam. Without them, your Islam is non-existent. You don’t seem to know much about your religion which you desperately seek to defend.
As for the categories of hadiths, I have addressed that here. We can at least school you a bit on your religion. Your drivel about Bible translation has also been addressed in another debate with another Muslim. I obviously don’t need to repeat myself here.
“read the quran… void of hermenuetic context, causes of revelations, historical incidence, scientific proves [sic]”
This is where you shortchanged yourself. There is no way, one would understand the hermeneutic context of the whole Quran without consulting the hadiths and sira. Without them, many Quranic verses are utterly bland and clueless. With the exception of the plagiarised parts, each verse of the Quran was recited by Muhammad in response to certain situations and events. Those events and situations are not recorded in the Quran. For example, a place says:
“He frowned and turned away because the blind man came unto him. What could inform thee but that he might grow (in grace). Or take heed and so the reminder might avail him?” (Q 80:1-5)
Now, tell me – without the hadiths or sira – who frowned? Why did this person frown and why did he frown at a blind man? Who was the blind man? This is just an example of how vague the Quran is without the hadiths.
Your appeal to the “scientific proofs” in the Quran is a big joke. You are wading into pretty deep waters that will sink you and your assertions pronto. That is where the Quran shot itself dead. Read this.
Haruna: I read all your struggles in trying to prove the weak positions of the various versions of the bibles using English Version as springboard to prevaricate on that fabricated s***** [book] called “bible”. Even worse is how you inverted various islamic narratives to hoodwinked your fellow gullibles in astration.
[At least] Islam has a uniform curriculum as springboard not as Christianity rooted in haphazade pattern. Islam has hadith, quran, sira, as earlier stated to guide their religious rite and worship while various Christians denomination have become lost in the murky water of its “error of syllables.”
Just last two months I heard one of my childhood friends is now a gay and a die-hard Anglican convert because of Anglican endorsement of homosexualism, I quickly notify him that even the pope of Catholic has approve gay in his former church, a satanic rubbish in an acclaimed religious domain.
Al Quran 2;18 says “they are deaf, dumb and blind, so they shall not follow the right path.” I will advice you to reflect and meditate on your choice of religion because its painful to see how you’ve murked in delusion.
Victor: I read through all your rants looking for a single piece of solitary counter-argument to all the issues addressed in the exchange, I found none. At least, the Muslim I dialogued with appears to be more intelligent and educated, while your use of vulgar languages like “s*****” damages your credibility.
One would either have to read that exchange with a closed eye or a veiled mind (or both) not to have been cured of misinformation and hoodwink. But as it’s often the case, you have no stones to throw, just cotton balls.
It’s amusing to see you backtrack. Initially, you threw out all your original materials, then again, you affirm them as guidance to your rites and worship. Evidently, Allah couldn’t compose a single book that would sufficiently be an authority in Islam. Muslim mortals had to compose all sorts of better writings 250 years after the Quran, join them to Allah’s composition to build the Islamic civilization.
And in the same way you initially said you “would not blame Christianity for the sins of pseudo-Christians and pastor-preneurs” you suddenly throw that away to refer me to some vague, insignificant and nameless figures as authority of what Christians believe or practice. You couldn’t even convince yourself.
As for all your potshots at Christianity, I will call your bluff, for the simple fact that Christianity and the Bible have been around, saving souls and changing lives for at least 6 long centuries before Islam, Allah or the Quran emerged from the sewers of Arabian paganism. The burden of proof is on Islam, not on Christianity. You think you can “prove” Islam or the Quran by default by attacking Christianity and the Bible? Anyone who thinks he can prove B by attacking C is already on lost cause.
The other option left for you to dive into the oh-so-cool fictional world of Muslim-Adam, Muslim-Abraham and Muslim-Jesus constructed for you by your lying prophet. In fact, our theme of discussion is on Islam and its books, not Christianity. As for your other remarks about your rumoured gay Anglican pal, this exchange should help you.
You don’t question Muhammad’s fictitious delusions and outlandish claims of travelling to the 7th heaven on a winged camel to meet some dead prophets or the claims of splitting the moon, visiting the land of the jinn or the many absurd claims prevalent in the Quran (e.g talking ants, sun sinking in the stream, meterors thrown at jinn etc.).
You don’t demand proofs when he claimed to be the greatest prophet of God or the “mercy of Allah sent to the worlds” (21:101) and yet was full of sexual depravity (rape, whoredom, pederasty, paedophilia and necrophilia).
You never ask yourself why a prophet of God would lie, loot caravans, enslave others, and act as a medium of demons. All these tales in the Quran and hadiths are accepted blindly without question. But you turn around to question the simple belief in Jesus Christ as the only Way, Truth and Life (John 14:6). You reject the reality of His death and resurrection for the salvation of man (1Cor 15:1-3).
You attack the Bible which is endorsed by your own Quran as divinely inspired. You scrutinise anyone questioning the many discrepancies and falsehoods prevalent in Islam. Why the double standards?
Of course, we have many proofs that Muhammad and his Islam are false. We don’t hide them. Here is one But the problem is that we humans are naturally prejudiced beings. It’s easier for us to see the flaws in other religions than to see the ones in ours. This is why it’s easy for Muslims to view their Quran through a rose-scented glass and other books through a dark-field critical microscope.
Many Muslims have been mentally suppressed and incapacitated to explain away, minimise or outrightly dismiss every blunder in their religion, their books or its founder but are eager to point out perceived flaws in others. That’s what I see you doing.
“Q2;18 they are deaf, dumb and blind, so they shall not follow the right path”
Yes, those were the answers Muhammad had whenever the wise people of his time asked him for proofs that he had the truth – cheap ad hominems! His Muslim followers are just like him. When one even reflects on this, it’s clear that Muslims are the blind and deaf ones.
You refuse to see the crimes and evil teachings of Muhammad in the hadiths and Quran. You refuse to see the many historical, scientific and logical blunders in the Quran. You refuse to consider that Allah is nothing but a false god manufactured by a manipulative man to fool the ignorant people of his time.
You simply refuse to question your religion, hear the other side or evaluate the fact that Islam is a false religion. This is deafness and blindness of the worst kind.
Scroll through this exchange so far. Not a single argument I raised has been addressed, let alone refuted. This is the greatest rhetorical trick in the book: ignoring the points raised by your opponents as if they don’t exist. It is like the typical Orwellian double-think. You have to convince yourself that the arguments I raised are not there. That’s a mulish mentality.
Haruna: All your prevaricative links are grossly misinterpretation of your own argument. it exposes how u’ve gone far in misconstruing the concepts and tenets of Islam totality. You easily make blunders on all the hadiths, islamic narratives, qur’anic verses. but it’s safe for people like me. I’ve not picked an iota of cogent fact, your myopicism has fed you in bad light. Posterity is the best settler of argument.
Victor: I see you throwing around vague cliches because you have no answers. Show me just one example of my “blunders”.
You said: “I’ve not picked an iota of cogent fact”
How would you, since your arrogance and ignorance wouldn’t let you see the forest for the trees. It’s easier for you to hold to Muhammad’s concocted fiction than to live on facts. The case is already settled. Islam is a false religion. Allah is a false god. Muhammad is a false prophet and the Quran is a false revelation.