Here is an exchange I had with a Muslim on Facebook.
Maishanu: Victor… I am quite sure there must be a Muslim within your immediate family, how do you think Muslims feel when you join our Holy Prophet with adultery? Have you ever come across a Muslim who insulted Jesus or holy bible? Be careful.
Victor: Go and read your hadiths about the wives of the prophet. How did Muhammad get Zainab? By snatching her from his own adopted son. What about Safiyya? He killed her husband and took her to his bed that same night. Mariyah was Hafsa’s slave, yet that didn’t stop Muhammad from taking her as a sex slave.
The Quran, in Suras 70:22-30, 23:5-6, and 4:24 allows Muslim men to take their female captives (or housemaids) as sexual preys. That is adultery and it’s a sin before God. Of course, I’ve come across several Muslims who insult Jesus and the Bible, but the issue here is not about “insulting” Muhammad. I’m simply quoting from your Hadiths and Quran, I didn’t quote from a Western anti-Islamic book.
Maishanu: As you mentioned earlier, there are wide variety of forms of anti-islamic religion since the advert of Islam till today, especially, nowadays, by Christians and Jews, I’m sure all these documents you used must be exhibited by either Jew or Christian but go to any Muslim-islamic scholar and have thorough interpretation, don’t get skewed by literary-works of the non-Muslims. Islam is the fastest growing religion on earth by conversion. Find out more.
Victor: I’m very familiar with your conspiracy theories. The problem is, they are just your cheap way of dismissing the unavoidable and uncomfortable facts about your “prophet.” Why is it that when we quote your own holy books (which you haven’t read) to you, that reflects Islam or its prophet in a poor light, the ready-made answer is to dismiss it or ask the person to go to a “Muslim scholar.” Is that not blind sentiment?
Why do I need to go to a Muslim scholar to understand the Quran or hadiths when they are so clear to understand? There’s no non-Muslim “skewing” your books. Bring your head out of that sand and stop reciting that ‘magic word.’ Face the ugly facts and reconsider your blind loyalty. I’ve quoted from Muslim scholars and Islamic authorities, so spare me of that cop-out. Besides, a religion doesn’t lead to heaven or become true just because many people are converting to it.
Maishanu: Mr. Victor what I know is that you cant quote Quran or hadith so long you are what you are unless it is interpreted by professional, and i know 1500 yrs of history’s hatred against Islam wouldn’t allow Jew or Christian to be fair about islam that’s why almost all what prohibited by Islam, Christianity-led nations advocate it like beer drinking, homosexual, nudity, lesbian, gay marriage e.t.c. How do you expect advocate of all these mentioned above would put you back in a right direction?
Victor: Why shouldn’t I be able to understand the Quran or hadith? The Quran itself says it’s a “clear book” (5:15), “easy to understand” (44:58), “explained in detail” (6:114), “conveyed clearly” (5:16) and with “no doubt in it” (2:1). Why do I then need a professional expert to understand it? Are you saying your book was lying when it made these claims?
It’s Islam that has a 14 century history hatred of Christianity or Judaism. It is Islam that deems all adherents of other religions to be “the worst of creatures” (8:55) while Muslims are exalted as “the best of mankind” (3:111). It is Islam that says Jews and Christians are “the vilest creatures in Allah’s sight” (98:6) and are doomed to perish in Hell (3:85).
I understand why you can’t see your hate; it has blinded you. The hate that Islam has filled you with against others makes you attribute the worst vices to them while you sanitize your fellow Muslims. In your mind, all non-Muslims are mean and deceitful folks who have nothing better to do than to spend all of their days “lying about Islam.” Such notion is as silly as it sounds.
As for “Christianity-led nations” I’m very sure, you are referring to the West. That is plain ignorance. First of all, there is a big difference between the West and Bible Christianity. Someone is not a Christian because he is an American or a British, or because his name is Mark Christensen or John Luke. A Christian must be seen based on what the Bible says and what Jesus taught.
The moral turpitude in the West today and their license of drunkenness, immorality or perversion is as a result of their apostasy and a clear rejection of the Bible. America has rejected the God of the Bible and has replaced it with humanism. Britain has rejected the tenets of the Christian faith and has turned to Eastern mysticism. In many parts of Europe, many have turned away from Christianity and atheism has gained grounds. So next time when you want to call these “Christian-led” nations, maybe you would need to pick up a newspaper first.
Moreover, the same vices are prevalent in Islamic countries. Gay and lesbian sex are very rampant in the Islamic world as this has been documented by even Arab scholars. Drunkenness and drug trafficking are also prevalent. The difference is just that they are not as overt as their western counterparts.
Maishanu: Don’t be self-centered by exonerating the west for neglecting the way of Christ. The British flag logo bears cross, while the American logo is “In God We Trust.” Here in Nigeria, whenever you see a Christian even if they go to church, women never cover their heads. Moving half-naked, drinking is their trade mark.
Victor: Exonerating? These nations are bound to sink since they have rejected the Word of life that can save them. It’s a simple principle. If the Bible that liberated them from slavery, superstitions and wickedness is disregarded, what is next? “Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a reproach to any people” (Prov. 14:34). When people reject the light, they will stumble in the dark. God told the nation of Israel “because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee…seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children” (Hos. 4:6)
That the British flag bears the logo of the cross implies nothing. It’s not a sign of the cross or a crucifix around a person’s neck that implies that one is a Christian, just as the rosary in the hands of a Muslim doesn’t mean he’s a true Muslim. The American slogan “In God we trust” has even been a thing of controversy to the atheist population of the U.S. Such words were coined when America still respected the Word of God, not today, centuries after. It’s just like someone calling a building a mosque because of a crescent moon symbol somewhere around its toilet door.
In the 1960’s, prayer and Bible reading were banned in all American public schools. In 1980, the 10 commandments were removed from the US Supreme Court. What country would claim to be an Islamic one when it bans Islamic prayer or Quranic recitation or replaces Sharia law with the Magna Carta? Such country has become a kafir land, no matter what Islamic externalities it still retains.
The issue of women covering their heads is not an issue in Christianity. If the god of Islam had an issue with women with uncovered hair, its simply because Muhammad himself had a problem with it. I’ve written about that here
The error underlying your thesis is that, you think a consequentialist argument (e.g Christians are sinners) will refute Christianity, but that in fact refutes Islam as well. Take a look at Islamic nations, there’s no vice you find among false Christians that you won’t find there too. In Iran, there you have high class Islamic prostitution (mut’ah) instituted by your prophet. In Afghanistan, there’s “bachan bazi” in which little boys are sexually used by older men. Recent Google trends reveal that words like “animal sex, anal sex, child sex” etc. are the most searched words in Islamic nations.
In Islamic countries, you have honour-killings, beheading apostates, amputating the hands of petty thieves, stoning of single mothers, wars in-between Muslims and oppression of religious minorities. Just as we’d judge a Muslim by what Muhammad taught and practiced, Muslims should judge Christianity by what Jesus taught and did, not by telling us about the sins of false brethren
Maishanu: That means the whole world of Christendom is crushed down and stumbled into darkness, because there is no way you could make any distinction between African or Nigerian Christian and that of Europe and America in every respect you are the same. Thanks to Almighty for holding us (Muslims) to our Holy Books without disengaging ourselves to the ways of darkness refurbished by the world of Christendom!
Victor: What do you mean by “the whole world of Christendom”? Christianity involves individuals. Every individual who trusts in Christ to save him is a Christian and His fruits of love, joy and peace are evident in their lives. Unlike the totalitarian dogma of Islam, we don’t impose our beliefs on nations or force them to follow Godly principles.
“crushed down and stumbled into darkness”
That’s a pretty accurate description of Muslims all over the world today. There are too many examples to cite. The Saudis and Yemenis are both Islamic nations; they both bow to your Allah and follow his book, yet they have been blowing their brains out with each side invoking Allah.
Since Pakistan has broken away from India in 1947 to form a separate islamic state, it has marched backwards politically and socially. Today, its one of the headquarters of honour-killing and rape of Hindus and Christians who are slaughtered frequently. No thanks to Islam.
In Iran, even toddlers are dressed up as suicide bombers. The Shi’ites and Sunnis there – both Muslims – bow to Allah, yet are busy bombing each other’s head off. Youths are killed like flies for wearing a certain hairstyle, while old Muslim men who rape little girls are let loose. That’s the darkness of Islam.
Why not take your message of “light” to those Christian girls kidnapped and made sex slaves by Boko Haram here in Nigeria? Or go share it with the Jews and Christians killed in Algeria? Go and tell those Sudanese children sold like cattle by Muslims how sweet Islam is. Perhaps, that Egyptian family jailed for 15 yrs for leaving Islam will love to hear your utopian dogmas.
In Saudi Arabia, where you guys spend heavily to go kiss your black stone, no Arab Muslim would typically touch black Muslims with an antiseptic glove. This “holy” nation is one of the biggest sex market of girls from Iran or Sri Lanka even during the hajj.
The muttawas beat up Muslim youths for going to birthday parties and have their hands amputated for stealing carrots, but their imam who raped his 5 year old daughter to death was set free. That’s a place where the life of an Hindu woman is 33% worth of that of a Muslim man. A place where women can’t drive a car or use their own pictures on their ID cards. If these are the best examples of Islam, then keep this dark religion to yourselves.
When we look at Islamic countries, we don’t see that “light,” what we see are Islamic cultures of hate, misogyny, barbarity, dhimmitude, paedophilia, violence and bigotry. The Bible tells us to judge a tree by its fruits and we can say, Islam is a very dark, rotten tree.
You call the Quran a holy book? What’s holy about a pile of garbage? A book that teaches you to kill those who don’t believe in your god and his prophet; that promises you sex with virgin harlots in paradise for murdering infidels; that endorses slavery and torture. What part of the Quran is “light?” It is the Quran that has opened the door wide to the doom and gloom that is seen in the Muslim world today.
You assume your Allah is God Almighty. How come he doesn’t fight for you? Why is it that you have to fight for him? A god that has to be fought for by weak mortals ceases to be the Almighty God. We don’t see any difference between your Allah and the mountain gods of the Incas or the death god of the Celts. There is no light in Islam. There is no salvation, peace, civilization, tolerance or hope in Islam.